Interview granted to Jeune Afrique and published on March 25, 2022.
As an extraordinary summit of ECOWAS on the situations in Mali, Burkina Faso, and Guinea unfolds, the Togolese Minister of Foreign Affairs responded to Jeune Afrique. He advocates for a final agreement to be reached with Bamako.
He is one of the few West African leaders in close contact with Colonel Assimi Goïta. Robert Dussey, the Togolese Minister of Foreign Affairs, has a long-standing acquaintance with the Malian transitional president. And he asserts: Goïta is open to dialogue and wishes to reach an agreement with ECOWAS regarding a reasonable transition period.
During his visit to Paris, he answered questions from Jeune Afrique as a new extraordinary summit of West African heads of state dedicated to the transitions in Mali, Guinea, and Burkina Faso opened on Friday, March 25.
Jeune Afrique: On March 24, the UEMOA Court of Justice suspended the economic and financial sanctions imposed on Mali. What is your reaction?
Robert Dussey: The UEMOA Court of Justice has made its decision, and we are obliged to respect it. More broadly, we support the lifting of sanctions. We are pleased that they have been suspended. We need to emerge from this crisis, which has gone on for too long. The consequences of these sanctions on the people and even the government are not positive.
Togo has often taken a conciliatory stance towards the Malian junta compared to other ECOWAS countries. Why is that?
That is the vision of Togolese diplomacy. It is not a recent development. Togo has always aimed to facilitate relations between peoples and nations. We have always done this – it’s in our DNA. Since independence, in difficult times, we have always favored support over sanctions, even if it doesn’t please everyone.
It is said that you are one of the few foreigners close to Assimi Goïta. How would you describe your relationship with him?
I know him very well, for a long time, well before he became president. Our relationship facilitates communication. He is a good man with whom one must converse and try to understand. He is young, of course, he can make mistakes, but to err is human.
Has he made mistakes?
I don’t have the right to judge him. But I believe he is someone who needs assistance.
Do you think he is entirely inflexible or capable of compromise to reach an agreement with ECOWAS?
He is ready to compromise, I can tell you with certainty. He is particularly prepared to agree to a reasonable transition period. Today, we are discussing 12, 16 months… The recent discussions revolved around 24 months. Considering that initially, Assimi Goïta wanted to stay at the helm of the state for an additional five years, proposing 2 years today is a significant compromise.
In your opinion, what is an acceptable timeframe?
From a technical standpoint, experts say that it would be possible to organize elections in Mali within twelve months, but that this timeframe is very tight. They recommend 16 months instead. Malian authorities, however, are advocating for a 24-month period. I believe that a compromise could therefore be between 16 and 24 months.
It has already been 18 months since the junta took power, and preparations for elections have not progressed much. Do you trust them to adhere to a new timeline?
Certainly, not much has been done in 18 months. But we have to trust the Malian authorities.
Is it really Assimi Goïta who holds power in Bamako?
I believe so. He leads with his four comrades, but he is the one who holds power.
Do you regret the Malian authorities’ use of mercenaries from the Russian Wagner group?
I prefer not to enter into that debate.
In Guinea, there is still no clear timeline for the transition of power to civilians six months after Mamadi Doumbouya’s coup. Are you concerned about this situation?
ECOWAS is concerned about this situation. But beyond Guinea, I believe that we have an interest in returning to regimes arising from elections. We are dealing with young officers, all colonels, who have a vision for their countries. We need to assist them in ensuring that this vision aligns with the genuine desires of the people. ECOWAS is working on these issues. It’s a bit challenging, but I believe they will succeed. That’s also why ECOWAS is making the Malian case a model, because if it’s mishandled, it will be difficult to resolve the situations in Guinea and Burkina Faso.
In Burkina Faso, Lieutenant Colonel Damiba mentions a 36-month transition. Is this timeline acceptable?
That is for ECOWAS to judge. I believe ECOWAS would prefer it to last less than 36 months.
36 months is roughly the time the Malian junta will remain in power if an agreement is reached for elections in two years [Assimi Goïta became president following the coup in May 2021]. Why would a transition period be acceptable for some and not for others?
We should not apply the same template everywhere. Personally, I think we should take it case by case. The problem is that we often tend to say, “If we did 18 months there, we can do 18 months here.” But the countries are not the same, the peoples are not the same, and the conditions under which people came to power are not the same. The current situation in Guinea has nothing to do with Mali and Burkina Faso. It was triggered by an overstayed mandate, not by a war against jihadist groups.
France has announced the end of Operation Barkhane and the reorganization of its military presence in the region, focusing on coastal countries. Will Togo ask Paris to enhance its cooperation?
If the need arises, yes. We have a dynamic military cooperation with France. Our armies work together to combat terrorism. For now, the situation is under control. Our defense and security forces ensure security in the north of our country. There has been significant deployment for over two years, and it is going well.
On April 21, you are organizing a ministerial conference in Lomé dedicated to combating terrorism and political transitions in West Africa. What concrete results do you hope to achieve on this second point?
The expected results are clear. Today, the fight against terrorism is a concern for all countries in the sub-region, not only those in the Sahel but also coastal countries like Togo. We also have several regimes resulting from coups.
These transitional regimes face a dilemma: how to effectively combat terrorism while meeting ECOWAS requirements?
If we place too much emphasis on elections and, at the same time, populations are being killed by jihadist groups, that clearly poses a problem. These states need to be supported by the international community in their fight against terrorism.